Finding your confidence and arming yourself with the right tools to find career success.

In this podcast, Anna shares her story about finding her confidence. She lacked belief in her own ability and didn’t have the right job search tools to stand out. What’s more incredible is that Anna found her career success during a worldwide pandemic when the economy was looking very bleak. With the help of a Career Coach, Anna was able to identify her weaknesses and overcome them. Marina helped Anna turn things around so that her resume, application and interview stood out in a very crowded market.

Read the Transcript

Grant Williams:  Let’s create your career, the podcast featuring Australia’s best, most foremost job search and career coach Marina Pitisano. I am Grant Williams. I produce this podcast, push the buttons and hopefully ensure smooth sailing. Start to finish. Hmm. And today Marina’s brought along a fantastic new guest.

[00:00:33] Tell us about Anna

[00:00:34] Marina Pitisano: [00:00:34] Marina. Well, thank you grant. And yes, I’d love to introduce Anna and Anna is very special because as we know, we’re still in, COVID-19 in isolation, and yet Anna was fortunate enough to get a role in these very tough times. So Anna, congratulations and welcome to let’s create your career podcast.

[00:00:57] Love to have you here.

[00:01:01] Anna: [00:01:01] Thank you very much

[00:01:02] Marina Pitisano: [00:01:02] lovely.

[00:01:04] Grant Williams: [00:01:04] Anna. I am really, really curious as a regular listeners would know. I come along to the podcast knowing nothing about add guest and we, we sit up and we, and we go now, wait, when this plays out to the, to the world, hopefully the whole COVID  oscillation and movement restrictions and everything [00:01:30] have come to an end, but the economic devastation that it’s left behind, in this country and in virtually every other country will probably be hanging on.

[00:01:43] Now, I would like to know, did you lose a job as a result of the, the whole slowdown with the COVID situation? and if that was the case, how did you get involved with Marina and be lucky enough to do them to get on with another one?

[00:02:04]Anna: [00:02:04] so yeah, my role, in a big, big four bank Australia, was, created before the, covid 19 crisis.

[00:02:14] And, yeah, they’re actually hiring more people at that bank. it’s kind of linked to that crisis, in a way, stealing the

[00:02:23] project.

[00:02:24] And there’s dealing with measuring credit risk, and the impact that might have going forward, if we do go into quite a big recession after the crisis, Comes to an end.

[00:02:36] So, but, we would, we, the bank that I’m working for was doing all of the checks before this crisis. They were just updating a few things and that’s what the project’s all about. So, yeah. and I was looking for em before the crisis

[00:02:55] occurred, but

[00:02:55] not, not really that hard if you like. I was just,

[00:02:59] basically.

[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Actually being a bit lazy about it, or there was school holidays and things. It’s just, I found it quite hard to get motivated. I hadn’t worked for a long period of time and I enjoyed not working. And

[00:03:15] yeah,

[00:03:16] it was sort of like, yeah, a little bit kind of, yeah. Sort of thinking I should get a job and then just a half thinking, well, I really enjoy this life

[00:03:29] Marina Pitisano: [00:03:29] Before working before you joined me.

[00:03:33] How long had you been out of work?

[00:03:37] Anna: [00:03:37] So I, I didn’t, basically I didn’t work for about two,

[00:03:40] two and a bit years.

[00:03:42] Which was my choice. I didn’t want to work for a while. I was just getting over some things that were going on in my family and, yeah, hang off to my son and making sure he had the right support.

[00:03:55] So, yeah,

[00:03:57] Marina Pitisano: [00:03:57] but

[00:04:00] that’s right. And that’s really important because she had been, and I had been out of work for quite a while when she decided. In half about why, like she wasn’t, she wasn’t really a hundred percent, but she thought, Oh, maybe I should start to look at the workforce. And maybe I should start to get back into the workforce.

[00:04:21] And we actually started that work around middle of February, end of March. So we had just met, we had just [00:04:30] started the journey and shut down, came around the 14th of 21st of March. But by then, We had, we had field a opportunity. So when you listen to Anna’s story, it’s interesting about what she found difficult through the job search and also, what she really needed a lot of help on.

[00:04:52] So that’s the journey we’ll go through today in this

[00:04:55] podcast. Yeah.

[00:04:58] Grant Williams: [00:04:58] Marina, it sounds like Anna has the advantage of being  in a specialized field and that people who have a high level and very specialized talents will certainly be in demand as we come out of the, the, the current downturn. Hmm.

[00:05:24]Marina Pitisano: [00:05:24] totally a great, you know, people like Emma.

[00:05:29] Yes. However it’s, we might know that, but through Anna’s journey, she wasn’t. She had not realized how important her skills were and because she had not utilized them for a couple of years, she actually wasn’t sure how job ready or whether those skills were still viable in today’s market. She actually, wasn’t sure about that.

[00:05:53] We know that, you know, a risk role, a governance role, a compliance role in these large [00:06:00] organizations. Especially  as we come out of COVID-19 and they’re going to be even more important.  But someone that’s not been part of a role for a long time, someone that doubts their ability and someone that thinks am I still relevant?

[00:06:14] Am I still credible? Am I still, you know, am I still am my skills still up to date? And are they going to be, recognized, accepted, and will I have the opportunity to get into a role. We have that, yes, we, from an objective perspective, we can offer that. But from a subjective perspective, you’re never really sure.

[00:06:38] And you also question and doubt your own ability and that, that was what we had to work with and work on for Anna,

[00:06:48] Grant Williams: [00:06:48] Anna, what was your immediately past role before you took your time off? And what were you really looking for this time around?

[00:07:04]Anna: [00:07:04] I basically worked at another big financial services company before this role and, I was doing, the same, a similar role, but in a slightly different department. And it was again, dealing with regulators. Ping and fun, actual service. So similar to similar background to, the role I’ve taken on [00:07:30] now,

[00:07:31] Grant Williams: [00:07:31] can you flesh out a little bit?

[00:07:33] I, for everyone, what, what your role entails? Are you again?

[00:07:45] Anna: [00:07:45] So sorry. Can you repeat that? Cause it just cut out. The

[00:07:49] Grant Williams: [00:07:49] kits. Could you perhaps flesh out a little bit so that somebody who’s not familiar with, with, with the type of role that you carry out in a, in a big financial institution, can you give, give the listeners and, and me an idea of what you, what you would do on a day to day and, and perhaps how you was, are you assigned clients or.

[00:08:16] Cool. Do you look at one client in particular or do you look at a class of different businesses?

[00:08:24] Anna: [00:08:24] So, yeah, my role was, working as a, what’s called a business analyst in the it department. The new role I’ve got is a business analyst actually in the risk and strategy department. There’s very similar transferable skills that you have.

[00:08:43]so you have to summarize what the business needs are, and sit with people who know how the processes and strategy of the business works and then try to, [00:09:00] kind of them articulate what they do on a daily day to day basis in their business and their, yeah. Basically then see what the changes that they need done.

[00:09:14]like many of the projects I worked on, cause I was in the always have been in the project space. so many of the projects have got to deal with a particular piece of ATO tax or, or regulation change, where they have to update something. And of course they want to keep those updates. So it’s all about the balance between what, you know, they, they can afford to do.

[00:09:43] And, they also have many deadlines that regulators set, which sometimes are  in a, in a big  big institution, not, not really  achievables you have to kind of negotiate and work out what, what you can achieve. And when, and then often the banks or financial institutions will go back to the regulator and go, you know, we, we need time and they’ll try to meet what the regulator wants, but yeah, it’s all about negotiation.

[00:10:16] And I helped with that often. And then what

[00:10:20] you do is you

[00:10:21] get into the little detail of what the tasks like the system changes

[00:10:26] or

[00:10:26] process changes, make sure that it’s all clearly [00:10:30] documented. Cause you know that the regulators are going to come in and check what you’ve been up to. Well, and also the shareholders will want to know what they spent their money on.

[00:10:39] And so, yeah, basically that’s what we have to do. Stick, try and deliver things for change, you know, to meet the regulatory changes across the bank or financial

[00:10:52] institution.

[00:10:54] And I think what’s important grant is that a lot of people will make the mistake that you did, which is it’s a bank. And therefore she would be in a front facing role.

[00:11:04] But Anna’s role is actually back office and head office. And it’s all her analytical skills and, and being a business analyst, she is analyzing the banks on a whole, the processes behind that, implemented for and looked at to minimize,  risks in the banking organization. So she will have a particular area, but she analyzes the processes and determines or identifies what would be the risk element and find ways to minimize it.

[00:11:39] So these are really strong and analytical roles and depending on whether you’re in the risk, Framework or the governance framework or the compliance framework. And she, and Anna is very much in the risk using a risk framework, making sure that the processes that are implemented or changed in [00:12:00] the banking industry, the risks are mitigated and making sure that if regulators, which is your AC.

[00:12:08] Tubs into the bank and looks at these looks at these processes. We have minimized the risk. So therefore we don’t spend millions of dollars because of risk has occurred. We’ve minimized it, she’s checked that. And she makes sure that, we’re, the banking system and their processes are free of any major risks.

[00:12:33] Grant Williams: [00:12:33] I understood. I understood what the process was. I just wanted to be clear of whether Anna is only analyzing the bank’s internal systems or where that Anna’s role is also analyzing the systems of the customers of the bank for the bank, so that the bank can make a judgment about. I particular business that might be wanting to do something because, cause it sounds like, the clients that, in, in Anna’s level of, of the bank would be major multi outlet, and this  businesses rather than, private businesses.

[00:13:17] Would that be right

[00:13:18] Anna: [00:13:18] Anna?

[00:13:20] I missed some of that again. Sorry. It’s yeah, yeah.

[00:13:26] Grant Williams: [00:13:26] Yeah. Just to clarify if, if you only look at the [00:13:30] bank or your own company’s internal systems, or whether you look at the systems and processes of customers of the bank for the bank.

[00:13:44]Anna: [00:13:44] so no, it would be the  internal systems.

[00:13:48] A lot of the time that I’m dealing with that the bank have, and definitely they’re like manual processes, right through from, you know, when they speak to a customer and take down the customer’s details and the customer buys a product through to reporting about that particular sale or product all the way through to the tax people or the, or the regulator.

[00:14:15] Grant Williams: [00:14:15] Great.

[00:14:16] So when, when you were ready to reenter the workforce, did you feel ready to go like, or did you really feel like it would be a difficult move?

[00:14:34]Anna: [00:14:34] I know, I didn’t feel ready. That’s all I called out for help. and I had procrastinated so much because I didn’t feel ready. And I knew that, I needed help, with my presentation of, information about my career.

[00:14:51] Cause I’m an Old some  my career has spanned over 25 years. So presenting that [00:15:00] information, in a succinct way was very hard for me. And, yeah, I got a great deal of help from Marina for that. Yeah. I had a nine page resume at one stage, which is the, you know, the equivalent of war and peace. I realized when you’re, sitting on the other side of the fence reading.

[00:15:20]people’s resumes and trying to work out, you know, whether there’ll be a good fit for the role you’re hiring for. So thank goodness for her. She made it look wonderful. And

[00:15:31] Marina Pitisano: [00:15:31] I’m very short. My pleasure

[00:15:35] Grant Williams: [00:15:35] for the young people listening or pace was such a big book that it turned into a three and a half hour film.

[00:15:44] And that was the short version.

[00:15:50] Marina, tell us about, the shape Anna was in, when she came to you and what was the first thing you had to do?

[00:15:58] Marina Pitisano: [00:15:58] Well, as I’ve mentioned a few times so far in our podcast is that she wasn’t ready. So, she had her nine page resume and she sort of looked at it and went, what am I supposed to do with this?

[00:16:12] And I don’t, I always remember NSA to me. I don’t know how to shorten it. I don’t know what I’m supposed to put in what I’m supposed to keep out. And so we, and the other thing that Anna was really concerned about was how does she present herself at an [00:16:30] interview? That was really difficult for Anna because she had not been for an interview for a long time, but also prior to her leaving her last organization.

[00:16:42] And I had the privilege of always being able to move around in the organization. You know, she was tapped on the shoulder. She was given the opportunity. So the chance or the opportunity to actually be interviewed was quite minimal. So, you know, and also she had been out of the organization, she had been out of the market for two and a half years.

[00:17:03] She really didn’t know what, where the tool had. The tools needed to look like what was required for her to job search. And also she also doubted to some extent, her own ability because you know, who would, ah, my skills. You know, I, my skills  is transferable to another industry, even though we did get into the same industry, but I had a two and a half year break.

[00:17:29] How do I actually manage that? How do I talk about that? And, you know, has that impacted my opportunity to get another role since I’ve been out of work for two and a half years? Now, as Anna mentioned, she was caring for family. So when you have a break and you highlight that that’s not a problem what so ever in today’s world, if you have a break and you’re caring for family or you’re traveling, the break is not a problem.

[00:17:56] You just need to highlight what the break is for people that are [00:18:00] potential employers will understand that, that that’s not the issue. The, where you do need to expand is to ensure. That you highlight the necessary skills for that role. And once you’ve been out of it for two and a half years, it’s really hard to remember.

[00:18:17] It’s really hard to go back and think what were my achievements? What were my responsibilities? how do I present myself now? after two and a half years of being out of the workforce. So that’s what we worked through and I think. I always say this with clients is as they start to learn about their achievements, as they start to see their resumes unfold, as they start to see that LinkedIn profiles come together and start to connect with what they’ve achieved in the past, they do build their sense of confidence.

[00:18:49] They do build. They, they do remove that sense of doubt. they build their confidence and they’re able to put them put the best, best selves forward because they know what to do and how to do it. So that’s, what’s really important.

[00:19:05] Grant Williams: [00:19:05] Anna, what did you feel you really needed to work on after your first meeting with Marina?

[00:19:16]Anna: [00:19:16] so yeah, Marina just, Gave me lots of confidence. And I could see she was, had, you know, she was so professional and had, yeah, basically had done this a lot before, [00:19:30] got to, quite a long career like myself. So, yeah, she, yeah, she’s really good at, being able to pick out, Your weak points and, help you build confidence in those areas.

[00:19:43] And, she’s very forthright. So, yeah. Definitely I’m a waffler and she was quite happy to tell me that

[00:19:51] what I was doing by

[00:19:53] mock interviews and things. So, yeah, it basically turned all the things that I was anxious about round into something that I then became a lot more confident about.

[00:20:05] Marina Pitisano: [00:20:05] A hard part.

[00:20:05] Is it all pointed at his strong points? Not your weak points, but yeah.

[00:20:11] Anna: [00:20:11] Yes, definitely that as well, but also I tend to focus because I was being a bit of a negative person

[00:20:19] at the time. Although the day, the week things

[00:20:23] get, you could see that and then help me, you know, work through those as well. And then, yeah, obviously there was a whole load of stuff where I was.

[00:20:32] Not actually, not realizing that they were strength and don’t, you helped me with those too, but yeah, ,

[00:20:42] Grant Williams: [00:20:42] that’s interesting what Anna mentioned there about, maybe having a, an, a negative mindset or, or perhaps just not being terribly confident about, about where, where you’re situated when you are coming.

[00:20:59] Back into the [00:21:00] workforce. How, how did, let me phrase it a different way? Did, did you change or did you give Anna some homework to do and some, some things to practice that changed her mindset or did you need to change her mindset to make the strategies and the processes that you have to offer more effective?

[00:21:28] Marina Pitisano: [00:21:28] That’s a great question. So what I did was that in my, in my journey with my clients, what I realize is when they have self doubt or have a negative mindset, All that confidence it’s simply because they’ve not connected with what they’ve achieved in their lives. They’ve either forgotten it or thought that if I’ve been able to do it, so can everybody else.

[00:21:53] So, and reframing that mindset around. You have a lot to offer you are you have all these skills that we can talk about and look at what you’ve achieved and when that comes out through the session. So I need to elicit that information from the client so that I can prepare the resume. And as we draw all that experience out those achievements, those skills, those capabilities, all of a sudden their mindset changes into, from.

[00:22:28] Being negative [00:22:30] and doubtful to being quite positive and excited because they now can connect with what they can offer a potential employer. If you don’t connect with what you can offer potential employer and you don’t promote yourself effectively when talking to a potential employer, you’re not going to be able.

[00:22:51] To get over the line. And that’s where we, I often state you’ve got to stand out. So being able to work through that process of identifying the key skills and the skills that she does have, and she owns that the key. Experience that she’s had. And also the achievements, which were quite large in Anna’s case, which she underplayed in many ways.

[00:23:18] And as, as she pointed out, she can waffles. So I turned around and said, you know, this is, this is a way you speak. So we need to actually. Reframe that change out a little and be able to be a lot more directive, which she did because we used a process which Anna will go through that really made her succinct and be able to deliver a great upgrade, a great example in her interviews.

[00:23:48] So the process is very much about. People connecting with what they can offer and really looking at that and being proud of that and having, and [00:24:00] realizing that they are capable and competent and yes, they have, they have a lot to offer and that’s how you move someone from being quite negative into a really good, positive mindset,

[00:24:16] Grant Williams: [00:24:16] which point in, in your, A relationship with, with Marina.

[00:24:23] Did you feel like you turned the corner and you were ready to grab or ready to be offered an opportunity?

[00:24:34]Anna: [00:24:34] so I think it was when I, followed, Marina’s, star plan and also did all the homework that she gave me. There was lots

[00:24:44] of homework.

[00:24:45] So, she basically was asking me to prepare, myself for interviews by, Taking roles and thinking of all of the achievements that I’ve had, or had done in these roles and presenting them in a good way.

[00:25:04] And I had to have at least 10 examples and she also, But, was teaching me about the different interview techniques that, you know, banks and financial institutions might have the main knowledge about, you know, interview techniques and also about the banking world  so she’s, you know, an ideal coach for me.

[00:25:28] And, yeah, I [00:25:30] got my confidence up by doing role playing with Marina and then basically I, yeah, felt a lot more confident when I went for a couple of interviews.

[00:25:41] Grant Williams: [00:25:41] Did you enjoy doing all the homework? Like, was it a bit of a voyage of self discovery?

[00:25:50] Anna: [00:25:50] Yeah, it was fun to do it cause I’ve, haven’t really had time to concentrate on myself, a lot recently.

[00:25:59] So, yeah, just, I just felt I came on, you know, improved greatly in a short space time

[00:26:06] with Marina’s coaching.

[00:26:09] And, I did wasn’t as anxious going to interviews, per because of her help basically.

[00:26:17] Grant Williams: [00:26:17] Marina. It’s important for people to understand isn’t it that when you need, when you need to get a job and you’re having trouble finding one there’s this work you have to do, you really need to put in effort.

[00:26:34] Now, were you happy with how, how much effort Anna put in and how quickly at tender around.

[00:26:43]Marina Pitisano: [00:26:43] I was extremely happy and I know that I am convinced more and more when I work with my clients that if they take on, what Anna did, which is, she was very committed to doing the work, [00:27:00] making sure that she would, she worked really hard on coming up with a scenario.

[00:27:06] So. What’s really important about an interview is that people need to prepare, you need to prepare for those interviews. And when I work with, when I see a lot of people in, in, in the market and I talked to them and I asked them about, do they prepare? They actually don’t prepare very well. So a lot of people think that they’re going to be able to walk in and just fluke it, but you can’t.

[00:27:32] You need to be able to have the being prepared, have your scenarios and have a good idea of what is going to be asked. Now the trick to that is making sure you see the case selection criteria. That gives you an indication to what could be asked, but it’s not the only thing. So, and for me, when I work with my clients, I, you cannot, I say this to Anna.

[00:27:59] You can’t prepare for every question they’re going to ask. There’s no way you can do that. It’s an impossibility. But what you do need to do is create these 10 or 12. Really, really thorough examples. And I love Anna before we started, she said, what was that technique? You showed me. What was that technique?

[00:28:18] And the technique is staff, which is situation, task, action result. And most people know about that technique and sometimes we’ll ignore it, but what’s really important when I speak to recruiters is [00:28:30] that, the, what they are looking for is that real minuscule details. So they want to know the situation you were in, what you did.

[00:28:38] How you did it and what was the result? And Anna memorize that her 10 scenarios or 12 were memorized to a T. So when she actually walked into the interview, she was asked most of the questions we prepared and she was able to confidently talk about them

[00:28:59] easily. And

[00:29:01] I remember Anna coming out of the interview saying, Oh my God, how did you guess that they were going to ask you these questions?

[00:29:08] And I didn’t guess I just knew that if she had the scenarios, really, she would able to use those scenarios in the interview. So what a lot of people make the mistake on is not preparing and not preparing thoroughly enough. And in today’s market, when you have got hundreds of applications going through and you’re shortlisted to maybe the top 10, or maybe the top five, if you are not thoroughly prepared for those interviews, more than likely you won’t be successful at them.

[00:29:43] Grant Williams: [00:29:43] You mentioned the checkmate. And, and you said it’s really important. Can you give us an example of a question that might be answered and might be asked [00:30:00] and a model kind of answer for it?

[00:30:05] Marina Pitisano: [00:30:05] So an example of that is, a stat and so always. You always respond to star response to what we call a behavioral behavioral type question.

[00:30:17] So why they asked behavioral type questions is because they can predict what you’ve done in the past. Will you will act and behave the same in the future. So it’s a behavioral type question, which is, tell me about a time you had a challenging. challenging client. What did you do and what was the outcome?

[00:30:37] So you would say, well, when I was at initial Australia bank, you know, and I was an, and I was a teller at the bank, you know, I had a client walk in and they were very angry and upset because they couldn’t access their account. I know what I did was that I, I asked what the account details, where I investigated.

[00:30:58]what had happened to the account? Why had it closed? You know, I suppose to re re. Rank up, our inquiry center to find out what had happened. And we discovered that it had been closed by accident because they didn’t have much money in the account. And in the bank, you know, there are accounts that have been held open for a long time.

[00:31:20] And if it’s not used. That will be closed down. So I had to go and explain that to the client. I had to inform them that unfortunately, the camp was closed on behalf [00:31:30] of the bank and that, you know, we’re quite happy. There was not much money in the account, but we could refund that. And so I explained to them what accounts were available today and what we could do for them.

[00:31:42] I set up a new account for the, the client was extremely happy and even spoke to the branch of Canton and gave them feedback on the great customer service I provided. That is I start answer.

[00:31:56] Grant Williams: [00:31:56] Anyone would think that you work for a bank?

[00:32:02] Anna: [00:32:02] Yes.

[00:32:04] Marina Pitisano: [00:32:04] Yes. I’ll give you a job. I’ll come work with you.

[00:32:16] Grant Williams: [00:32:16] Before you took the job that, that we’ve been talking about. Did you have any other interviews, for other positions? And if you did, did you, did you have any questions that you didn’t do a good job of answering.

[00:32:40] Anna: [00:32:40] Oh, I’m hearing every other.

[00:32:45] Marina Pitisano: [00:32:45] You probably hear me better. And I teach you have, did you have interviews before, before the interview at the bank, did you have a one or two interviews before?

[00:32:56]Anna: [00:32:56] yes I did. Yeah.

[00:32:57] Marina Pitisano: [00:32:57] Yep. And what happened in those interviews?

[00:33:00] [00:33:00] Anna: [00:33:00] Yeah. Yeah, but they were all in the same kind of team. But yeah, I knew, I think the team eventually knew couple of interviews that they wanted me to join, but the roles that I would have been viewed for ended up being a bit different.

[00:33:20] So,

[00:33:21] Marina Pitisano: [00:33:21] but before we work, had you attended any other interview?

[00:33:29]Anna: [00:33:29] no, I, I did do a couple of interviews before I. I met you  but yeah, I didn’t get those roles, but, and I, I can see me.

[00:33:39] Marina Pitisano: [00:33:39] Yeah. And what was, what was the difference? What, what, what was the difference between going for those roles when you might not have been prepared compared to how you work and Peter, what’s the difference?

[00:33:50] That’s what I think grant is asking. What did you find was the difference?

[00:33:56] Anna: [00:33:56] Yeah, it was definitely my confidence level and my, the way I presented the information about my career and myself,

[00:34:07] Marina Pitisano: [00:34:07] and also the examples you provided, did you feel that you were able to provide quite thorough examples because you had prepared them beforehand?

[00:34:19] Anna: [00:34:19] Yeah. Yeah. Much more confident presenting about my, so, and that my examples actually met the court, the interview. [00:34:30] It was too, about me, but I hadn’t gone off topic or, or, you know, it wasn’t sort of, I didn’t feel like I was, I suppose I’m like, okay, Oh answering it.

[00:34:43] Wasn’t like a prepared something of an example that was off topic. If you like, it was actually a relevant. and it didn’t look too rehearsed if you like it, it became the, I felt, I thought I was more natural and actually, you know, managing teams more agile at use the example of library to meet that question was.

[00:35:08] Well for that question.

[00:35:11] Marina Pitisano: [00:35:11] So, and if I ask you a question, you know, you’ve been, I would love you to go through how you were feeling, trying to find work after two and a half years. So we. What you, the emotions you were going through, how would you describe them? So here we are two and a half years later, you decided that you need to go into the workforce.

[00:35:38] What were, what were the feelings that you were going through at that moment? So I think we can connect with a lot of viewers around this question. So what were you feeling and going through what was going on in your mind and how were you emotionally feeling.

[00:35:57]Anna: [00:35:57] so yeah, just, I just, I [00:36:00] felt that all of the information about me looked very tired and out of date. And, a lot of it was the resume and the LinkedIn profile just repeated a lot of the my skillset again and again. so yeah, just had no confidence that it was being presented in a, in a good way, or that I was presented a good way.

[00:36:24] So, I knew that I needed help to get them. Yeah, that I needed, like, yeah. Professional help with the LinkedIn profile and may, and also even just career advice. Cause Mar Marina actually told me that she didn’t think one of the roles I was going forward, you know, quite right. And, you know, helped me.

[00:36:48] To focus on what, you know, the correct roles for me. I wanted something that I was comfortable with, that I’ve done before, as I was returning to work, I didn’t want something brand new that was really out of my comfort zone. So, yeah, I ended up getting almost my career as about the role of roles I should be paying, applying for as well.

[00:37:13] Yeah.

[00:37:13] Marina Pitisano: [00:37:13] Correct.

[00:37:14] Anna: [00:37:14] Like a whole, you know, you would use the whole deal, you know what, everything I needed to help with you with that for me.

[00:37:24] Marina Pitisano: [00:37:24] Yeah. Thank you.

[00:37:30] [00:37:30] Grant Williams: [00:37:30] The, the process that you went through was successful, but did you feel that you’ve learned, many new skills and perhaps even picked up some attitudes that, really valuable from you apart from Justine, securing your new role.

[00:37:58] Anna: [00:37:58] Yeah. I would say that I can use some of those, skills that Marina’s taught me in actual jobs. A lot of the time,  you have to stand up and give presentations and, you know, I feel like I have a lot more confidence to be able to do now. I like the whole staff principle, you know, I think, anything you’re trying to explain to people can be, you know, you can use that technique, get your point across.

[00:38:29] So take that with me. In some of my work now being a business analyst is all about trying to, communicate with people across various roles, within an organization, to my T unit, the people at the coalface who are in sales and then compliance people, accountants, quite different characters that you come across and, Yeah, that, that, this term of presenting [00:39:00] information seems to work, in my, my role as well as an interview technique.

[00:39:06] So thanks for that

[00:39:09] Grant Williams: [00:39:09] Marina. What are some of the things that, you helped Anna, develop that. essential for anybody looking for a new job.

[00:39:25] Marina Pitisano: [00:39:25] Well, as we’ve gone through, what’s, if you are job seeking job, searching, wanting to change your job in any way. I’m looking at other career options. The first point of call is of course your resume.

[00:39:39] You need to make sure that that is a working document. That’s working for you, and it is different, the right messages and stand, and it’s in a format that it will stand out. To potential employers, making sure that it’s clean, that it’s, professional and it has all the information in it. And so if they, if listeners that are listening to the podcast, if they want to know what that looks like, please go to my website or download my job application kit.

[00:40:11] I provide that, that outline of a, an effective resume and cover letter for anyone that needs one. secondly, you also need to make sure that you get into a,  you have the right mindset. So you make sure that [00:40:30] you are quite confident. And so we worked on that and also making sure that you’re extremely well prepared for that interview.

[00:40:37] So they are the tools that I, that we really stood out when working with Anna, that we had to work on to ensure that we got her into the, into the role she has today.

[00:40:51] Grant Williams: [00:40:51] Do you

[00:40:52] think that Anna ,  you will be staying in the, the kind of role, that you’ve settled into, for the longterm now, or would you be eager to do some kind of a, career change again in the next 10 years?

[00:41:15] Anna: [00:41:15] I’m quite happy doing this role. I like working in the project space because it allows you to move, and solve different problems, when you move to a different project, but it’s, I’ve seen the same skills that I’ve been building on, for the last 10 years or so. And, yeah, I, I definitely want to stay in that area.

[00:41:41] It’s yeah, very well paid as well as a voice. Yeah. I

[00:41:47] Grant Williams: [00:41:47] remember that as a really good example of somebody who is incrementally building a career and making it stronger. [00:42:00] And there’s a real sense of security that, that I get from, from Anna that she knows that her, she knows she’s very competent at what she, is doing.

[00:42:14] And. That, just, you know, little, little nips, little building blocks can, make a satisfying career. But, as Anna just mentioned that I wasn’t going to, financially very real rewarding career, but one that, an undeniable sheet to pivot, this, that would, that. That you don’t like too much Marina, but, I think if you’re at one or it’s always give you an opportunity to just tweak, if you, if you get to that fatigue stage in a career.

[00:42:58] Now I know that isn’t exactly what happened with. with Anna, but she’s had to make some small adjustments and I will to sort of continue. It’s almost a linear, a linear progression, and to be satisfied with what she’s doing.

[00:43:17] Marina Pitisano: [00:43:17] Definitely. I mean, it was a linear progression. There was a, there was a major break in her career, which most of us have.

[00:43:24] And what’s really fantastic about Anna and my work with [00:43:30] her is I don’t want to mention that dirty word that starts with an M, which is maturity that a lot of people say are, is that going to hold me back at no time? It at her. And I have to worry about maturity because when you show your capability, when you show your skills and when you are able to deliver a really good.

[00:43:55]a really good story, you know, maturity doesn’t always come into play. And so for those people out there that feel that because they’re now older, and possibly don’t have the same opportunities or, in some ways their maturity is going to be held against them. You know, Anna was a brilliant example of going back into a senior role with the, with very similar skills because of her history and her capability.

[00:44:26] She was able to win a fantastic role because she believed in herself and she was able to drive that message. So maturity does not always come to play and it does not always have an interest or a major role in people not. Getting the role. So that’s really important. And that’s why I asked Anna to come on to show that yes, she had her anxiety yet.

[00:44:50] She had her doubts, but yet she had a rich history of experience that she was able to deliver in the interview and she [00:45:00] was able to win out. So I just want to give people that have, that are more mature, that might’ve had a break. Or that I’m feeling like I don’t have a chance to say, yes, you do. And it’s in anything and everything is possible.

[00:45:17] And so not to hold you back because you think you’re mature, mature, and people think that you’re too old. So I encourage people to still go for their dreams regardless of how old they are.

[00:45:31] Grant Williams: [00:45:31] Anna

[00:45:32] Marina, was reluctant to mention, did, did your maturity and, opera fair to think of it as experience because you, when you, when you had, a long continual career in, in the one sort of industry, you. You know, you know, a lot, you know, a lot of things. Did that, experience home maturity make you reticent to reach out for assistance?

[00:46:10] Anna: [00:46:10] Yeah, it, it made me, ask for help. I have a friend who, In her late fifties. And she said, I never basically because of my age. So I thought, Oh, well, I’m gonna definitely have to prove her wrong and also ask for as much help as I [00:46:30] can get. Cause she, she may have had a very good point, but, but I just thought, well, I’ve got years of experience.

[00:46:37]yeah. And, that. It should be seen as a good, so, yeah, I proved her wrong with Marina’s help. Yeah.

[00:46:48] Grant Williams: [00:46:48] Marina, every employee is starting to realize that, the more mature and the more experienced candidates really have a lot to offer. Have they got over that? That sort of prejudice that I think was fairly common that the olive learned all these bad habits and we’ll have to re try and re trying them.

[00:47:12] And, and in the way our mall has employed has got that reject.

[00:47:19] Marina Pitisano: [00:47:19] I’m not sure if employees have got over it, but I do think that there are employers out there that still have that stigma about maturity. so, and there are roles out there that are better suited. For younger people, there are other roles that are more suited for more mature people.

[00:47:38] And my view on this is that regardless of how the employer feels and thinks about the candidate, it is really important for the candidate to be able to demonstrate and show why choosing a person that has maturity. It could be, could work [00:48:00] in their favor. So it’s about stepping forward and stepping in with the right attitude to say, yes, I am a mature candidate, but this is what I offer you as a mature candidate.

[00:48:12] So not to shy away from it, not to be embarrassed by it and not to hold the fact that you’re mature, hold it, hold it back, or feel that you’re not going to be chosen. Because of that maturity is a really hard one because yes, there are employers that will not entertain the chewer people. I have have employers move towards more diversity.

[00:48:38] Yes, they have. We’re incorporating mature people. We’re corporating people with challenges. We’re incorporating people with, you know, you know, people that have got serious challenges in their lives. Yes. The world is trying to open up. But it doesn’t mean that all employers will have that view. So it’s really up to the candidate to be able to say yes, You, you choosing me, this is what I’ll offer.

[00:49:07] If you know, you being able to sell yourself in that situation is really critical and not, and not pretend or hide away from the fact that maturity maturity is not maturity is, can be an asset in many ways. And you need to be able to demonstrate that when you can.

[00:49:26] Grant Williams: [00:49:26] I think I know the answer to this question, but.

[00:49:30] [00:49:30] Would you encourage any other, experienced and mature people who are seeking a change to reach out to a coach of some sort?

[00:49:46] Anna: [00:49:46] Yeah, I I’ve already recommended her to lots of my friends. unfortunately I’m, I feel very lucky that I got this role in particular. At this time, there are a lot of my friends. Who’ve not been so lucky in hospitality or travel industry. so, yeah, I would definitely recommend Marina to them just even when things start to pick up again.

[00:50:12]and I expect those industries who have, you know, less, less roles going, especially to begin with. So. it’s going to be quite tough and doggy dog, I think they’re going to have to up their game, to get the roles that are going. So, yeah, I definitely say Marina can help in that area. And also, I, I would, I haven’t used Marina for this, but I suspect she’s got the skills to be able to help people move from one domain to another and recognize the potential in that.

[00:50:47] Ski can cross over and then build some confidence to be able to move from say hospitality or travel to somewhere else because yeah, their lane may not be jumped [00:51:00] in there. So, yeah, she, yeah. You know, basically it’s one stop shop as well. That’s what I liked, you know, Pam do linked in, she can do recommend, can do into the interview techniques and coaching.

[00:51:16] So, yeah, basically you don’t have to go off to different areas with the different, you know, different things that you need. It’s all in one place.

[00:51:27] Grant Williams: [00:51:27] Well,

[00:51:27] Marina, that seems like the perfect place for me to say. What are your top tips that we can, get out of your experience and Anna’s experience?

[00:51:38] Marina Pitisano: [00:51:38] Well, I talked to today. I love the top tips. It’s fantastic. Is. if you, if you need help and if you are struggling in job, searching, reach out and get help, that’s really, really important. and really think about. Why would you not invest in your career? You know, Anna is a brilliant example of being told.

[00:52:04] That’s not where it’s not something that I would do. And by Anna reaching out and getting some help, she was able to secure a really great role that possibly she might not have secured if had she had not asked for help. The other thing that’s really important. Is making sure that your tools are pretty sharp, so ensure that your resume’s working for you and also making sure that you’re well prepared for that interview.

[00:52:29] So [00:52:30] what I’d really love our listeners to do is that if you haven’t got the right resume and as Anna pointed out with COVID-19, people might need to change their careers. They might need to pivot. Well, I might want to start to need to apply for jobs. Download my job application kit. It’s there for free, you know, downloaded, have a look at what the templates look like.

[00:52:54] Have a look at what you need to stand out in a cover letter, you know, reach out and get some help. So download the job application kit. The other thing is listened to accurate booster series, which is all working with really good experts. You know, how do you not have to have your LinkedIn profile? What does your PR into peripheral need to look like?

[00:53:16] You know, talk to, you know, and listen to Gabor around mindset. Listen to Eileen around building awareness. So you might not need to reach out to help, but you can listen to the experts. And also my recommendation is also maybe if your not sure about what you want to do and your answers are quite scared about the job market, the way it is, reach out and have a chat with me.

[00:53:41] Simply go to my website, have a chat. Now booking some kind of 15 minute career chat with me and let me, let me listen to what you need and hopefully I can help you in some way. So the tips is getting, getting everything in place and the biggest tip is get help if you need it.

[00:54:00] [00:54:00] Grant Williams: [00:54:00] Well, chip is for people to go to let’s create with his head.

[00:54:07] let’  and Dan lied any of the free resources. And my other tip is to give Marina a review for, for the podcast, because we want to, we want to improve. It’s all about improvement. Just give us a review, some good, honest feedback. Nobody can be, it can be upset about that. Apple podcast is a great place to do it, or you can do it at pod chaser or Stitcher.

[00:54:43] Any of those places you can tell us

[00:54:47] not

[00:54:48] cruelly and just failing. And so we cannot excuse him that

[00:54:53] Marina Pitisano: [00:54:53] that’s

[00:54:54] Grant Williams: [00:54:54] right, Anna. Thanks for coming along. It’s been a pleasure to, understand your career. And I’m good on you for taking the time out and, and getting things in order that you needed to take care of.

[00:55:11] Cause that’s always challenging. And it’s good to say that you sort of bounce back, cause cause it can drag you down kind of it.

[00:55:24] Anna: [00:55:24] Yeah, totally. so yeah, I’m just, yeah, so pleased that you [00:55:30] have found Marina.

[00:55:33] Marina Pitisano: [00:55:33] Well, thanks grant.

[00:55:37] Grant Williams: [00:55:37] Thank you everybody for

[00:55:39] listening,

[00:55:41] Marina, Peter Sinai at let’ Thanks everyone.

[00:55:51] Anna: [00:55:51] Thanks then.

[00:55:52] Marina Pitisano: [00:55:52] Bye.


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